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'Relationships make life worth living'

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You said earlier that Nana's character is based on a Dalit poet. Will that film be from his point of view?

No, it won't be from his point of view. Whatever is happening in the film, he puts them on the horizon correctly. He is not exactly narrating, though I called him a sutradhar now. He keeps travelling through the story and defines it for you. Whatever the situation is, he explains it for you. Every sequence ends with him and reaches a climax with him. He evaluates the film for you. Otherwise, it becomes a little difficult, vague.

He has no biases at all, but he is a very important character. As our heroes and heroines need songs in any film, I have put in two songs for them. Nana has three songs to play. So that sense he's the musical man.

You have not directed any film since Maachis. Why do you make such few films?

It's not easy to make films that one wants to because it is not easy to find a producer that fast for the subjects I want to make. They are not hot cakes in the market. Unless somebody comes forward to finance them as happened with my last two films.

R V Pandit backed Maachis since he knew about the Punjab problems. Dhirubhai Shah, who has never made films like this before, financed Hu Tu Tu. He stood by me and never interfered in the film-making process. On the contrary, I think he was as inspired by the film's subject as the rest of us.

Did you face problem earlier with this film?

I had a producer who backed out at the last moment in 1997. It was Sunil Shetty who introduced me to Dhirubhai. Sunil Shetty is responsible for seeing this project through, by bringing me the right person to produce it.

Another reason I did not make films is that I liked being unemployed, since that is when I read, study and write. If you don't get enough time to put fresh water in the pool, you start repeating yourself. And that's no fun at all. Giving a year's gap helps you think of a fresh subject that will excite you. You want to say something. That takes time.

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I think one needs a little time for oneself. This time I was happy. My daughter Meghana, whom we lovingly call Bosky, was with me. She picked up the subject from one of short stories and worked a lot on the screenplay. Actually, come to think of it, she picked up the story, worked on the entire base and coaxed me into it. I shouldn't deprive her of credit in this film just because she is my daughter.

Isn't she too making films?

She has made a few documentaries. One, on the domestic servants in this country and how they work in around 10 to 15 houses to make a living, and another on how security agencies becoming popular despite the police being around.

Will she make a commercial film?

She does want to make a film of her own. Which she will -- soon.

What do you think of this sudden urge to change things and to maintain the moral standards of this city?

I don't think the objections to songs or films carry much weight. These are people trying to pull strings to get some political mileage. And it's not only films. Wherever they can, they do it. For example this cricket match controversy. I don't think there is any cultural crisis here at all. Then what about the English films here? Why aren't they banned? Or objected to? How come only Indian films are targeted to maintain the moral purity of the city? One can't ignore television either. The interest is vested...

Haven't you changed one word from the song Ghapala hai?

I have changed the word 'LIC'. Though I have referred to the Haridas Mundra scam when our finance minister then, T T Krishnamachari, had to resign. It was a definite reference. But then I was told that this was for the people. Nobody is going to benefit specifically here. So I changed the word 'LIC' to 'bima'. More general in that sense...

I don't mean to hurt anybody or pull anybody down. There's no personal gain here. It's just that when you see scams and scandals anywhere, you are pointing at them and not any individual. It doesn't serve anybody's purpose. As long as what I am trying to say is conveyed in the right sense, it's all right.

Why do relationships fascinate you so much?

Gulzar and daughter Meghana. Click for bigger pic!

Aren't human relationship the essence of life? It's not unusual. If one is aware and alive, then it is one's relationships that make you live. It makes life worth living.

You are quite taken up with Bengali literature... Is it because you worked with Bengali film-makers like Bimal Roy and Hrishikesh Mukherjee?

Certainly not, because I even married a Bengali! It's the influence and the fascination of Bengal that made me marry one.

Since my schooldays, I've read the translations of Bengali writers. I'm Punjabi, but I read a lot of Bengali and Urdu literature. But somehow I wanted to read the original Bengali literature. That forced me more into the language and, finally, Bengali food --macch bhaat. She (Raakhee) fed me machand... that's how it came about.

I had also read translations of Tagore and the modern poetry of that period that I also translated for a Urdu magazine. I made Ijaazat from a novel by Subhodh Ghosh who I called the Maupussant of India. Bengali literature was one of the richest literatures and it is very fascinating. I think only two languages have contributed to children's literature, which is again very fascinating -- Bengali and Marathi.

And how did you get to the subject of Meera?

I've been fond of biographies. Meera is hardly four hundred years ago. When I mention to people that Meera belongs to the Tulsidas period, that she wrote a letter to him too, they don't believe it. They are not aware of this fact. She is the first example of a woman who did not accept the religion of her husband and yet remained married to him.

I thought that was very interesting. Her husband was a kshatriya and she, a vaishnav. I've made a historical film, not a mythological one. Her father died fighting Babar and it's interesting how she met Raidas who gave her an ektara. I wanted her legend to live again.

Do you get frustrated when your film takes long to finish?

It's very frustrating to make a film that takes long to make because you lose the fever. It's important to remain feverish and that's why my films don't take more than a year.

Have you never faced date problems with actors?

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I don't have any problem with actors' dates because I plan my films much earlier. I have their dates in advance. It's good for them too and they are happy.

You said once that you wanted to be a poet. How did you become a film-maker?

I only wanted to be a litterateur. I wasn't very keen to become a film-maker. I fended off many offers from my friends who were in films then -- people like Salil Chaudhary who I met in Bombay, in IPTA, Balraj Sahni, Shailendra... I was working in a motor garage that time as an administrator. I was there because I knew I'd have more time to read and study. My friends were working with Bimalda at that time.

They took me over to him to write a song for Bandini. That was the beginning. He asked me to be his assistant. I don't know, maybe I should have blushed. But he did give me that offer. I thought that writing lyrics wasn't poetry and so wasn't keen. He told me that he was starting a film called Kabuliwalla and that I should be his assistant there. I agreed.

Didn't you join as a lyricist in Kabuliwalla?

In Kabuliwalla, I joined as an assistant. But later he asked me to also write a song.Ganga aaye kahan se, Ganga jaaye kahan se. I wrote songs for a while and turned to direction.

There are not many writers who have become directors in our country though lots of editors have become one. How has being a writer helped you?

There have been writers who have become directors in our country too, especially scriptwriters. Editors and cameramen are larger in number because that is a technical qualification. For me going to direction from writing was convenient because I knew what I wanted to say. It was clear to me. I was verbose in my earlier films till I picked up the medium and became a little more confident.

Your first film Mere Apne was a remake of a Bengali film Apunjan.

My first film was a remake of a Bengali film in a way. But I really did not base it on that film. I based it on a short story on which that film was based by Inder Kumar Moitra.

When will you direct your next film?

At the moment I am not working on any film. I am committed to writing scripts for my daughter and my associate, Salim Arif. After these two scripts, I'll consider making another film. Till then, I'll enjoy my unemployed state.

Gulzar's photographs: Jewella C Miranda. Hu Tu Tu photographs: courtesy Time Films International.

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EARLIER INTERVIEW:
'If your politicians are corrupt, your underworld is thriving, then this is what will be reflected in your films, and it is foolish to hope for something different'